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Amber In WV
I thought Obama was a lawyer at one time...Dosn't he realise our laws are based on the 10 comandments! And he says we are not a Christian Nation!!! Come on Obama tell the world you are really Of the Muslum Beliefe then you wont have to put off finding a church anymore!!
Anonymous
Wow, you guys are tools, this nation was founded on freedom of religion... That includes all religions. Just because you grew up in a Christian household doesn't mean it's a Christian nation. Thomas Jefferson was roundly opposed to organized religion and made a point that separation of church and state was necessary to the reform of the religious tyranny. (The church of england)
You think we're trying to push you out but you'll find that most people have nothing wrong against Christians, it's when Christians, out of fear of being ousted from a political voice, push even harder their morals on others.
We don't want you gone, we just want you to let us live our lives, no matter what you think of it. Most people just want to enjoy our limited time here on earth amiably which is what I'm sure you want to do.
Obama's right, because if we were to be a nation of Christians (or any other religion he mentioned, though I'm sure you didn't hear that part) everyone would subscribe to that religion, last time I checked that's not the case.
WOW
Sorry to break it to you, this country has many types of people and they should NEVER be forced to conform to what christians want.
Also the hatred I see in here for PRESIDENT Obama is sickening, I may not agree with everything he stands for, nor did I agree with President Bush all the time. But he had my respect as the leader of this country, to show such disdain for our president is disgusting.
Mallie
Regardless of whether or not the founding fathers intended to set up a country based on Judeo-Christian values, the founding of this country WAS influenced by these values because they were the prevailing morals of the day. A good majority of the colonists andthe countries the colonists came from were Christian. You can't deny that Christianity had an influence on the founding of this country, That being said, most Christians aren't trying the force Christianity on non-believers through their politics. The disagreements between religious factions occur on moral issues (like abortion and gay marriage) which go against our moral code. If this is a nation of citizens as President Obama says, then shouldn't decisions on these issues be left to the majority to decide? In 2008, 76% of U.S. adults identified themselves as Christian. This is a clear majority of the population. The trend of late that I see is that minorities are attempting to force there moral beliefs on the majority. So my opinion is, that on these tough issues that cause problems, we should just have a final majority vote to decide the question. Then it won't be the christians forcing their ideology on everyone else. It will be the citizens of America speaking out on an issue. Will that make you happy?
Reallist
Brennan: I don't believe All of us Christians are trying to twist anything, except to keep OUR Christian Rights!! So many people are changing protocols and practices recently that have been in place forever or a long , long time, that we feel we have to start fighting for Our religious rights of freedom! It is not unpatriotic or Un-American to stand up for what we believe!! But, apparently, it really bothers people who are opposed to our beliefs, so much that they are down-right crude and rude!!! Those who don't want a free country and freedoms of all our bill of rights and constitution should maybe think about moving out of America and going on to a country that will or already conform to their beliefs!! We were here First!!!
mallie
Response to Archer:
to me Abortion is murder ... am i supposed to just sit back and twiddle my thumbs while murder takes place?
Archer
On the contrary. As I recall, there is only ONE instance where the law forced a Christian to do something against their will. It was a pharmacist who refused to dispense the morning-after pill to a woman, who then had to have an actual abortion. The law was then formed that IF they are the only pharmacist in an area, and the person has NO WHERE ELSE TO GO, then they must dispense the medication, regardless of religion. I agree with this decision because the pharmacist has no idea why the woman needed the pill - nor should it be the pharmacist's business as to why she needed the pill. As for the rest? You don't have to marry anyone gay. You don't have to get an abortion. You can still pray in school so long as you don't force someone to pray along with you. You can still pray out in public, so long as you don't force someone to do so along with you.
See the difference? When laws are made respecting one religion (like a law against gay marriage would and does), you are then stripping the rights of a minority that is doing absolutely no harm to you physically or financially. THAT is wrong. And that is why people are so up in arms when Christians try to impose their will on others by making laws that respect their religion over any other (including non-religion). Sometimes I wonder if those that are so adamant against these laws (and Obama) have ever tried to imagine what it's like to BE these people they're so against. Imagine not being able to marry someone you love. Or not being able to visit them in the hospital if they're critically injured because by law their parents are their only 'family' and don't approve of you. As opposed to making laws that GIVE people rights, instead of taking them away. Your rights as a citizen of the United States STOPS the moment they infringe on the rights of another citizen. They always have.
Redbeardo
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
Eisenhower said
These words [“under Godâ€] will remind Americans that despite our great physical strength we must remain humble. They will help us to keep constantly in our minds and hearts the spiritual and moral principles which alone give dignity to man, and upon which our way of life is founded.
when he added those words to the pledge in 1954.
The nation isn't christian, its American, and Americans have the freedom to choose.
Anonymous
No, I don't think United States is a Christian nation. Even tho vast majority represent some form of Christianity, claiming USA is a Christian nation would imply that Christianity is the official state religion, much like atheism is in China - which it is not. In turn, it would imply that the government favors one religion over another, which is discriminatory and downright unconstitutional.
And as for the "In God we trust"; it was added during the era of McCarthyism and the Red Scare when everything even remotely communist-sounding had to go - the original phrase written in bank notes was actually "Out of many, one.", which sounded too communist to them and "In God we trust" was the least communist-sounding replacement they could come up with.
Lastly, morality is a philosophical, not a religious concept; an atheist can be just as kind, loving and law-abiding a citizen as any Christian, they just choose not to believe in a higher being.
Anonymous
The founding fathers knew well the dangers of religious fundamentalism, particulary the Puritan Christian brand of it. Most of our well-known founders were "Deists," who held that neither Jesus or anyone else was divine (or else we all were divine...which is what I prefer). I mail this to everyone who forwards me that tired old "proof" of Christian Nationhood. Taken from various sources.
"I have found Christian dogma unintelligible...Some books on Deism fell into my hands...It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared much stronger than the refutations; in short I soon became a thorough deist."
-Benjamin Franklin, "Toward the Mystery" (autobiography)
"When the clergy addressed General Washington on his departure from the government, it was observed in their consultation, that he had never, on any occasion, said a word to the public which showed a belief in the Christian religion, and they thought they should so pen their address, as to force him at length to declare publicly whether he was a Christian or not. They did so. However, the old fox was too cunning for them. He answered every article of their address particularly except that, which he passed over without notice....he never did say a word of it in any of his public papers...Governor Morris has often told me that General Washington believed no more of that (Christian) system than he himself did.
-Thomas Jefferson, diary entry, 2/1/1799
"As the government of the United States of America is not on any sense founded on the Christian Religion, - as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of of Musselmen (Muslims), - and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
-Treaty of Tripoli, signed into law by John Adams
And, my most favorite....
"I promised you a letter on Christianity, which I have not forgotten...The delusion...on the clause of the Constitution, which, while it secured the freedom of the press, covered also the freedom of religion, had given to the clergy a very favourite hope of an establishment of a particular form of Christianity through the United States; and as every sect believes its own form the true one, every one perhaps hoped for his own...the returning good sense of our country threatens abortion of their hopes and they (the preachers) believe that any portion of power confided to me (such as being elected president), will be excerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly: FOR I HAVE SWORN UPON THE ALTAR OF GOD, ETERNAL HOSTILITY AGAINST EVERY FORM OF TYRANNY OVER THE MIND OF MAN."
-Thomas Jefferson, personal letter to Benjamin Rush (all-caps are also on Jefferson memorial)
"Finally, in answer to Fortescue Aland's question why the Ten Commandments should not now be a part of the common law of England we may say they are not because the never were."
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, 1814
"I was glad to find in your book a formal contradiction, at length,...that Christianity is part of the common law. The proof of the contrary, which you have adduced, is inconrovertible; to wit, that the common law existed while the Anglo-Saxons were yet pagans, at a time when they had never yet heard the name of Christ pronounced, or knew that such a character had ever existed...What a conspiracy this, between Church and State. Sing Tantarara, rogues all, rogues all. Sing Tantarara, rogues all!"
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Major John Cartwright, 6/5/1824
John
Wow you people are a big bag of misinformed crazy.
Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli, as RATIFIED by CONGRESS and APPROVED by one of our FOUNDING FATHERS, JOHN ADAMS
"As the Government of the United States of America is NOT, in any sense, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
Books. Try reading them instead of burning them
Anonymous
Matt 7:2-5
Judge not, lest ye be judged.
Chris
Good God, are you people for real? The United States is a "liberal democracy", not a Church-run State. The country was created this way to specifically get away from the Church's influence over State policy. Additionally, in case you haven't noticed, the numbers people in this country who identify themselves as Christians is slowly waning. The only constant in life is that things will change, deal with it, it's not the end of the world.
FutureMarine
The United States is actually a Republic. The people originally had nothing to do with electing our president. Just thought you should know
Grant Joy
Unfortunatley, religious people tend to feel that without their religion there is no morality.
Morality is not found in a book, it is a part of our evolution. It is completely possible to live a moral life, for example, and never worship a god.
It is nice that you have found a set of rules in a book that lay out your morality for you, others of us would like to live and let live, deciding our morality for ourselves.
Historian
No, Betty, my dear, and the rest of you nut-jobs, you are wrong.
Thomas Paine was a pamphleteer whose manifestos encouraged the faltering spirits of the country and aided materially in winning the war of Independence:
I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of...Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."
George Washington, the first president of the United States, never declared himself a Christian according to contemporary reports or in any of his voluminous correspondence. Washington Championed the cause of freedom from religious intolerance and compulsion. When John Murray (a universalist who denied the existence of hell) was invited to become an army chaplain, the other chaplains petitioned Washington for his dismissal. Instead, Washington gave him the appointment. On his deathbed, Washinton uttered no words of a religious nature and did not call for a clergyman to be in attendance.
John Adams, the country's second president, was drawn to the study of law but faced pressure from his father to become a clergyman. He wrote that he found among the lawyers 'noble and gallant achievments" but among the clergy, the "pretended sanctity of some absolute dunces". Late in life he wrote: "Twenty times in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!"
It was during Adam's administration that the Senate ratified the Treaty of Peace and Friendship, which states in Article XI that "the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion."
Thomas Jefferson, third president and author of the Declaration of Independence, said:"I trust that there is not a young man now living in the United States who will not die a Unitarian." He referred to the Revelation of St. John as "the ravings of a maniac" and wrote:
The Christian priesthood, finding the doctrines of Christ levelled to every understanding and too plain to need explanation, saw, in the mysticisms of Plato, materials with which they might build up an artificial system which might, from its indistinctness, admit everlasting controversy, give employment for their order, and introduce it to profit, power, and pre-eminence. The doctrines which flowed from the lips of Jesus himself are within the comprehension of a child; but thousands of volumes have not yet explained the Platonisms engrafted on them: and for this obvious reason that nonsense can never be explained."
James Madison, fourth president and father of the Constitution, was not religious in any conventional sense. "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."
"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
Ethan Allen, whose capture of Fort Ticonderoga while commanding the Green Mountain Boys helped inspire Congress and the country to pursue the War of Independence, said, "That Jesus Christ was not God is evidence from his own words." In the same book, Allen noted that he was generally "denominated a Deist, the reality of which I never disputed, being conscious that I am no Christian." When Allen married Fanny Buchanan, he stopped his own wedding ceremony when the judge asked him if he promised "to live with Fanny Buchanan agreeable to the laws of God." Allen refused to answer until the judge agreed that the God referred to was the God of Nature, and the laws those "written in the great book of nature."
Benjamin Franklin, delegate to the Continental Congress and the Constitutional Convention, said:
As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion...has received various corrupting Changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his Divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the Truth with less trouble." He died a month later, and historians consider him, like so many great Americans of his time, to be a Deist, not a Christian.
The words "In God We Trust" were not consistently on all U.S. currency until 1956.
Although the Declaration of Independence mentioned “Nature’s God†and the “Creator,†the Constitution made no reference to a divine being, Christian or otherwise, and the First Amendment explicitly forbid the establishment of any official church or creed.
Anonymous
Reposted for truth: some actual comments on Christianity from our founding fathers:
"As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." - (Treaty of Tripoli, 1797 - signed by President John Adams. and ratified unanimously by the Senate of the United States)
"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind." -Thomas Paine, 'The Age of Reason'
"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason. Lighthouses are more helpful than churches." -Benjamin Franklin
"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it." -John Adams
"I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike, founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth." -Thomas Jefferson
"What has been [Christianity's] fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." -James Madison
"There is nothing which can better deserve our patronage than the promotion of science and literature. Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness." -George Washington
"In God We Trust" was added to currency, and "Under God" to the Pledge of Allegiance, in the 1950s after pressure on Congress from a bunch of kooks like those in this thread. It was NOT part of our founding - as you can see above, our Founding Fathers very much wanted NO official or quasi-official religion. You fools can rant and rave and your empty little heads off, it doesn't change the reality that we are and always have been a secular nation.
Kate
Um. I hate to break it to you, but the "god" stuff on money wasn't added until the 1950's and it was to show the Russians we weren't communists. Has NOTHING to do with religion or christianity.
Anonymous
That HE throws around to bail everyone out?
You realize the TARP bailout was passed before Obama was elected, right?
Is it really that easy to delude yourself?
Anonymous
Christian Morales? You mean this guy? ...or maybe this guy?
Anonymous
http://www.intel.com/pressroom/kits/bios/morales.htm
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0602582/
Anonymous
Our nation was founded in the age of enlightenment. Ever heard of the Jefferson Bible? It was Thomas Jefferson's attempt to extract biblical doctrine without all the hocus pocus. Read about it sometime.
Kate
No, we aren't. This country was NOT created on Christian values. You need to read up on your history. Ever heard of the Treaty of Tripoli? Ratified by the Senate, signed by the President? Let me show you it:
""As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
Ever heard of "A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America" written by John Adams? Let me quote it for you:
"The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses.
". . . Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind."
Stop remaining ignorant. Be whatever religion you want, just don't be ignorant.
Anonymous
It's frightening that there are still individuals out there who believe this.
Anonymous
"Has Obama not read our Fore-Fathers signed and docemented words about how our Nation was founded on the Judeo-Christian Principles???"
Have you? Can you cite these so-called "documented words" please? I want to know what document you're referring to and who signed it. Really. Please help me.
Anonymous
Do you not understand the simple difference between a country founded on principles similar to those of the Judeo-Christian faith and a "Christian Nation?"
These principles you seem to claim for Christianity - don't steal, don't kill, respect your neighbor's property - are not uniquely Christian and the fact that our founding fathers used them as a guide does not a "Christian Nation" make us.
I'm sorry, but you live in a country that was founded to respect all religions and not to support a single one over all others. If you're unhappy about that, you are free to move to one of the many countries in the world where there is a single state-sponsored religion.
Like... Oh... say... Iran? Would you be happier in Iran?
Anonymous
The American Founding Fathers were NOT all christians.
The majority of the founding fathers were deists, as indicated when they wrote All men are endowed with inalienable rights by their Creator, others were atheists. I have reason to believe that most of them had a very low opinion of Christianity, as I shall show, and ALL of them, atheist, deist, theist or otherwise, were secularists.
Here is what your founding fathers thought of Christianity:
"I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life, I absenteed myself from Christian assemblies." -Benjamin Franklin
"Lighthouses are more helpful then churches." -Benjamin Franklin
"The Christian God is a being of terrific character- cruel, vindictive, capricious and unjust" -Thomas Jefferson
"Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone upon man" -Thomas Jefferson
"During fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been it its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolences in the clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution" -James Madison
"This would be the best of all possible worlds if there were no religion in it" -John Adams
"Shake off all fears of servile prejudices, under which weak mines are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." -Thomas Jefferson
tom
Obama saying that the US is not a Christian nation?! What would you expect from a child educated in the madrasses of Indonesia, and enlightened in the church or Reverend Wright?
Countryside
Our country was based on Christian Values and the government was formed on the basis of God. If we deny any affiliation with God, I would shutter to think what we have to face when God turns his back on us. That will be the time that the unbelievers will find there is and was a God. We pray that the leader and leaders of our country would get their hearts right with God before it reaches that extreme. God help America!
Patty Ann
It might do well to remember that it was the politicans who cruscified Christ. Sound familiar?
Mollie Grimes
GOD
------------------------------------
ONE NATION
I put this on all my mail,bills please everyone let them know we are one nation under God.
Anonymous
sorry, basic math. that says god divided by one nation.
Anonymous
So because you were raised to believe something, it must be so?
A lot of people in the 1950s were raised to believe blacks are an inferior race. Does that mean that's true too?
Just because your uneducated parents told you something doesn't make it so my misinformed friend.
Anonymous
So because you were raised to believe something, it must be so?
A lot of people in the 1950s were raised to believe blacks are an inferior race. Does that mean that's true too?
Just because your uneducated parents told you something doesn't make it so my misinformed friend.
Anonymous
George Washington and John Adams said is first! You people need to study history!
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
Treaty of Tripoli 1797
Anonymous
Our new "regime" is not interested in facts! They are interested in propaganda. We are, according to our founders, "endowed by our creator," end of story! Where is my America?
Anonymous
"If our nation isn't Christian, I don't know what it is."
It's a representative democracy, last I checked. Did you skip middle school?
Anonymous
God has actually DEALT with us by allowing Obama to become president, now we have to pray, should have been already, for him as well as our country
mr.loyd
pray for our president. what defines a " christian " lets see, Christ-like or like Christ is the most common definition. his choices,politically, tell us he is neither. his changes in the law reflect an absense of biblical truths, his very words deflect from our founding fathers that judeo- christian principles are the back-bone of our nation and yes, the God of the holy bible, and yes, the same bible where Jesus Christ is lord,, son of God, and yes the Holy Spirit is our teacher and comforter, yes, this book, these words, were the guiding light the blueprint if you will that this great nation was founded on. we are christians, those who follow with all our heart. our mind, our soul, and our stength the word of God. pray for our president he too will someday recognize the truth
karen in calif.
It was very clear to me early on, that obama would be a detriment to our country,what stunns me is the verocity of the "transformation"he is accomplishing and intends to do.Yea..we can pray for him,but this man stands accountable and those who naively voted him in, Obama knows exactly what he's doing and the enemy is behind him.Lord come quickly.
C. Lamar
I'll try this one more time!
God is Jesus. Jesus is God. and you better not blasthmey the Holy Spirit. The generation that established this great nation held those same convictions more fervently than does this generation.
Marie
I would just like to know if there is anyone out there brave enough to admit that they voted for Mr. Obama and braver still to say they were wrong in their choice of him for president. All we have to do is look at our Christian roots to see why we have been so blessed all these years. Show me one other country that compares with ours. Of course that may be changing if we keep electing people like Mr. Obama.
Anonymous One
Obama is an embarrassment; he insults America every time he opens his mouth, he worries about the rights of terrorists but condemns the unborn to certain death, believes gov't should control our lives, changes policy to enable liberal beliefs and still has not provided proof of his own citizenship. He's a coward, dangerous to freedom and is NOT fit to sit in the Oval Office - what a disgrace. And PLEASE stop comparing him to Lincoln! Abe was Honest.
C.Lamar
God is Jesus and Jesus is God and you betternot blasphemy the Holy Spirit
in God we trust is the same thing as saying in Jesus we thust. That generation of people that established the U.S.A. believed that probably more than this one does.
Anonymous
No we weren't. We were founded on Enlightenment principles: secular government, natural rights, and individual freedom.
Anonymous
Thank you.
Brennan
What the heck? An informed and educated comment on a Fox News page? Have I stumbled upon the bizzarro internet?
It's true, America was founded by enlightened Deists. Although I doubt the zealots that tend to read Fox News would bother learning any real history when they can just parrot what their fundie leaders tell them.
Anonymous
I completely agreed with you but remember he promised to bring changes to this country. What does that mean? he is going to up side down every principals and values that this country was built on.
PattyLC
Thank you - How many of us feel this way? I pray many, many more.
Anne
"One Nation under God" NOT "One Nation under Christianity"!!! How completely intolerant, ignorant, and quite frankly shallow to believe that your god is the only one that counts!