Notre Dame outrage: More Clergy weigh in
America magazine, as promised, has the official, redacted version of Fr. Cleary’s letter to President Obama here. It is much more successful, I think, largely thanks to editing.
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Mark E. Chapman
Notre Dame can hardly be considered a bastion of Catholic orthodoxy; it perhaps is one of the most liberal Catholic universities and colleges in America. Non-Catholic professors out-number Catholic professors overall, and even the theology professors tend to represent the liberal "progressive" interpetaion of Vatican II and are most critical of Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI (especially when he was Cardinal Ratzinger, Prefect for the CDF). That the president of UND would invite the anti-Catholic Obama to speak at commencement is no surprise, as he openly advocates UND fitting into the cozy liberal-left mainstream of American academia. These are not ordinary or neutral times. It is a time of moral crisis not only in the Catholic Church but in all Christian communities, a moral crisis whose center is the Magisterium's commitment to a Culture of Life (from conception to natural death) versus liberals like Obama with his allies in Planned Parenthood, NARAL, and the leftist liberal media committed to the Culture of Death (abortion as birth control; embryonic stem-cell research; legalized euthanasia; weakness towards Islamic jihadist terrorist countries and cabals, and a targeted attack against private religious education. The Catholic bishops who commendably have stood firm against Obama's appearance at, and so endorsement by, UND reads like the Who's Who of the conservative return to Catholic doctrine and morals in conformity with the Magisterium -- but their numbers are clearly a minority among the NCCB, and even more distressingly, clearly carry no weight with the administration of UND.
And just for the record -- I am a LUTHERAN, who even so finds the actions of UND hypcritical and further erosion of the Great Tradition of traditional orthodox Christianity wherever it may be found.
Pigpen
Even if they don't agree with President Obama (and I don't) I do hope they will show the courtesy too him that is deserving of the President of the United States. We should not act shamefully, like the liberals did against President Bush.
MARNIE
do un-to- others ,as thay would do to you ! we'er speaking -out not sitting -back any more and watching THEM CHANGE AMERCIA ! RIGHT is right / VOTE !!!!!!!!!
Stu
Amen, Marnie
People need to stand up and WAKE UP before it's to late for our kids !!!!!
JLJ
The problem is that many are "fair weather" catholics, christians, etc. and they do not vote in line with their values. They pick and choose and then try to justify why they don't vote man and values but instead party, pocketbook, and what's in it for ME!
Obama's values are not in line with the "good book". Sorry for those of you offended by this but it needs to be said in truth. Imagine how God feels about our choice of president. Obama with his senate votes supports abortion and infanticide. I might add that he has a right to think and vote the way he wants but we also have a right to stand separate from those whose values are different from ours. That's what makes this a great country!
Notre Dam is a private university that uses monies from patrons that support them for many reasons and I am sure one of them is values. Obama should have never been inivited and he should bow out gracefully instead of spitting in the face of those of us with values.
God appoints our leaders for whatever reason. With Obama comes suffering
and pain which will bring more people to the lord seeking refuge. So, it's all good as far as eternity will go.
This is an opportunity to stand separate from Obama and those that share his values and to stand with God and Jesus Christ our savior.
tom2oo
I hope the students at ND have the decency to turn thier back on obama when he speaks. He is a threat to us all, an arrogant SOB and seems to think he is king and able to force his view on all of us. He has not done one thing i agree with, let's use our free speech while we still have it to speak out.
Elaine
The issue is this. A true Catholic university's mission is the same as the mission of the Church which is to educate student's in the truth and prepare them to live a Christian life and at the same time, help to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ throughout the whole world.
A Catholic university has no business inviting anyone who advocates, promotes and endorses public policies that serve to destroy the faith and morals of not only Catholics, but everyone who must live under these policies if they become part of civil laws.
It scandalizes Jesus and his Church when its members give a public platform and/or honors anyone who is known to be an adamant defender of everything the Church teaches is sinful and immoral.
Thad
I am a student of Notre Dame University and proud to say that Barack Obama is my president! It is an honor that he will be speaking at our school, just as it would be an honor if President Bush or Clinton had come to speak. I question your patriotism!
JLJ
If you do not share the values of Christians then why are you going to this university?
Even though it is not our place to do so, one could question your committment to Christian values.
Anonymous
And I question your religion. Are you not attending a Catholic University? Again..the word "Catholic". Doctrine much different then that of President's. Conflict of Interests..PERIOD!
Dennis
Dear Thad,
First let me congratulate you on attending Notre Dame. It is an achievement just to be accepted there. But, you have not gained the right to question anyone’s patriotism son.
So far in this world you have done nothing but take and have not yet given anything back to this society. It is not you fault, it is no young’s people’s fault it is the way of the world. Your experience in this world is from a protected bubble built by your parents and coddled by you teachers and professors. This is something that upset me most in this election was that the fate of this country was driven by mostly individuals that have had no real responsibility in life. Either by choice, those with their hands out or by those who just haven’t been tempered by life’s heat and accepted the challenge. To use a line from the Bible that Mr. Obama used. When I was a child, I walked, talked and acted as a child. Now that I am a man I have set aside my childish ways. And became a Conservative.
Anonymous
this president should not be allowed on SACRED SOIL.and the president of NOTRE DAME should be EX-COMMUNICATED..................i"m sick of this LIBERAL NONSENSE..................it"s not nonsense,IT OFFENDS " GOD "
Mr Met
ND should tell OBAMA to stay home. He is not welcomed there. After spending 3.7 Trillion Dollars and not supporting the churchs views he should not be allowed there.
Gail
This president is at war with the principles of the Catholic Church. He should not be speaking at a Catholic University period!
Pro life, Pro-american
i think this situation is dispicable. I would give respect to the president of the US but this president is as close to the anti-christ as any one I could imagine. His ideology is one thing.....but his ideological principles will now be the countries handbook. Pro-abortion, pro-stem cell , -pro socialism., pro-international currency..the americans who voted for him will soon regret what they have done to this country. it is a bad thing for the US and I am very upset with the Notre Dame staff that invited him.
Anonymous
The anti-christ?
Really?
Really?
Take a moment...look at the leaders of all the countries around the world....and then tell me that Obama is the anti-christ.
Maureen
Obama is the scariest thing to happen to our country in my lifetime. I was shocked that this inexperienced community activist somehow managed to become the leader of the greatest country in the world. I can't help but feel there was some kind of outside conspiracy that pushed for and funded his campaign. How could every newspaper and every newspaper have been so determined to have him elected. He has immediately set out to destroy all that is american. We are sitting back and letting this happen!This was not a normal election. Rev. Wright, Ayers, Acorn, Chicago, Pelosi, Hollywood, CNN, MSNBC,Soros,etc..It seems that no-one had a chance against this speech giver. Who did give him all those millions?Why don't we know about his grades in all schools?Where was he born?So many secrets.His wife and he have brought their daughters to a church to teach them hatred for whites and America. They are now in the whitehouse. How much damage can they do before americans wake up and get them out of there.Corruption,lying,tax cheats,liberals,parties,arrogance.Is this the vengeance Rev. Wright and Ayers were looking for?Is he their puppet?God help us for letting this happen to America.
foxy_ks_girl
Pro-Choice is absolutely Pro-Abortion. There is no getting around it, even with all your lefty-left rhetoric. You can't be pro-choice and then turn around tell me that you don't agree with abortion. If you truly believe that abortion is murder, you should grow a pair and stand up.
RB
At sometime you have to decide where you stand on an issue. I am a Catholic and I am against abortion, no matter what you call it. You can enjoy all the hypothetical discussions you want but the bottom line is that Notre Dame is an extension of the church that very actively works agaisnt abortion. If you are a follower of the teachings of that church you do not support abortion based upon "being a young college student". If you really believe pro choice is not pro abortion you are so naive, but perhaps that makes it easier to live with.
Robert
I'm a Notre Dame local, and I'm against Notre Dame.. If this is going to be for the "peoples judgement" why not make it as absurd as it is. The senior class wants him there, it's not about his position on 'abortion' it's about his position as the leader of OUR nation. He is MY President and YOURS (Although I didn't choose him, nor would I have). Accept what you have to, fix what you can, and shut up about that which makes no differenc..
Lucca
It's not easy to live with at all. It is excrutiating. Pro-choice does not equal pro-abortion! I am not in favour of abortion. I wish that not one more abortion would take place.
My pro-choice stance comes from my unwillingness to impose my will on a woman to the extent that I am controlling her body.
It is not naive, it is not easy... it is a carefully thought out, sad, difficult point of view to maintain... There is no satisfaction taken in it.
Lucia
When you were in grade school, Didn't you learn that life begins at conception? I realize that Gov. run schools don't always get things right, but there is a reason why pro-abortionist still have not challenged this.The TRUTH! If what you're taught is that the conception is life our constitution provides protection for that life .Women make the first private choice to have intercourse the next choice she makes is to Honor her responsibilty for her first choice or OOPPS I want to take someone the life of another human being just because that life can't physically and verbally fight to save itself. We used to believe in protecting the weak among us!
Michael C
Controlling a woman's body? This is such a tired argument. 99.5% of abortions are done on women who had control of their bodies and became pregnant, thus assisting in the creation of a new life within her womb. With the realization that going to full term with this life they have been entrusted with will upset their life in some way, some as simple as "how am I going to get into my new two piece?', which I actually heard one woman say... Aha... no problem... let’s kill it and throw it away. Problem solved.
Mark
No one is in FAVOR of abortion. Pro-choice advocates recognize the moral complexity, and conclude that pro-choice is better than the alternatives....
Always-Right
This is no longer a catholic university but a college supporting baby killing.
MARNIE
ONE DAY THAY WILL ANSER TO GOD ! (SO WILL WE ALL)
Lucca
If there is serious contemplation about revokiing Obama's invitation because he is pro-choice, then every staff-member and student should be questioned about their choice/life stance and all pro-choicers should be removed from the school.
Hawkeye57
The difference is that Obama, by Catholic Law, is guilty of manifest grave sin in his complicity with abortion. His actions, and the tacit support given them by Notre Dame, create scandal. This is not necessarily the case with the other staff members. If Obama were to publicly denounce abortion and work to abolish it, then he would be more than welcome to speak at Notre Dame.
Anonymous
Inclusive attitudes is not the reason for the drastic decline in the schools. Cost to send children to Parochial Schools has been a factor in the decline. Attendance at Church on Sunday and active Catholics in the Church is on the rise.
Anonymous
ok
Lucca
Such inclusive attitudes may explain the drastic decline of the catholic church in the USA. Notre Dame would be history...
http://www.geocities.com/pharsea/Decline.html
"Catholic schools.
Almost half of all Catholic high schools in the United States have closed since 1965.
The student population has fallen from 700,000 to 386,000.
"Parochial schools have suffered even worse. Some 4,000 have shut down,
and the number of pupils has fallen from 4.5 million to just under 2 million."
Anonymous
I am not sure what all the trouble is with President Obama and Notre Dame. Yes I am Catholic, and I did not vote for our current President nor do I support his policies. And if I understand The Bible correctly, Jesus Christ spent His time with tax collectors, prostitutes and sinners. Welcome the President into our house, but make sure he understands our beliefs and ask him to embrace them as well. Turning him away is not the answer.
Anonymous
He is the President of the United States of America. There have been other pro choice presidents. Give it a rest!
Vince
Annette,I want to what these Pro Life people would do If their Mother,Wife,or Daughter were raped or victims of incest.
Vince
I am a Pro Life person and have been in the situation you describe and what I did was ask the person to do what Jesus would do and that is to give the baby up for adoption if they could not handle raising the child. These cases are few and far between and should not be the reason to legalize murder and not allowing a human being the Right to Live!!!!
Vince
Give the child away is the answer?Like an animal or pair of shoes? Why did they put the child up for adoption,was it half black?Were they ashamed?
Marlys
Pro Choice?? The child should have a "choice" not to be sucked piece by piece from the haven of his mother's womb and then put back together on a tray just to make sure there isn't anything left of him/her in side their mother....wouldn't want to cause and infection in Mommy now would we? If per chance the child would be born alive , obama would allow it to be killed; after all the child wasn't suppose to be born at all.
Vince
All good and true Christians should be praying for Obama and not passing judgement on him.I think thats God's job.Do they have Sunday School for adults?
Michael D. OFlaherty
I am sick and tired of all these so called Catholics putting down Notre Dame but if you ask the about Columbia hosting andone and everyone that is ok. Wake up world he has done nothing to hurt you and he s the President of the United States.
Michael C.
Nothing to hurt us? Get off MSNBC and check out some other news source dude...
Bob B.
I went to Columbia...they have no religious interests...but Notre Dame is a catholic university...I'm sick of "so-called catholics" who think their open mindedness is somehow a good thing...to allow someone who is against everything that catholics and americans stand for....shame on you
Anonymous
I agree, we do need to pray for his "Emminence" Obama, but....we can and should be able to express our displeasure in a "Christians" belief that killing the unborn is ok.
Notre Dame,,, stick to your guns! NO OBAMA at a Catholic University, and I am not even Catholic. GOD BLESS AMERICA!
PurpleEagle
I pray for Obama every day . Should we let only God judge killers and rapists also ? Does not society pass judgement by it's laws ? I will be glad to recommend a Sunday school for adults...I think you need it .
Mark
Um....are you implying that Obama is a killer and rapist? If so...feel free to repent for your errors.
Vince
Who said anything about breaking the laws of Society.Obama hasnt broken any laws.Your God will take care of things in the end.Havent you read that?
MARNIE
sunday school for adalts, how about for ALL the UN BORN
BABYS ! WE must SPEAK-OUT for THEM , Because THEY
CAN NO LONGER DO SO !!! THEY HAD A RIGHT TO LIVE
they WOULD HAVE LIKE TO PLAY ,GO TO SCHOOL.
HAVE FRIENDS ,HAD A FAMILY & GROW OLD !!
Vince
Dont forget about all the LIVING babies and children who are abused and not taken care of.How does your God allow that to happen?
MARNIE
GOD GIVES US ALL FREE WILL . CHOICE some GOOD some not so GOOD !
I HOPE N.D. has PEACE in there HEART on this CHOICE !!! ALWAYS BE TRUE TO GOD WORD ! AND YOU'LL BE BLESS
eps
Remember Obama is pro abortion and at any time during the term. Also he even supports killing a child when born and survives an abortion. He voted for this in Chicago. So Notre Dame needs to be a catholic college or a Columbia socialist college.
Annette
eps, President Obama is pro-choice not PRO ABORTION.
Your statement is quite the exaggeration.
By the way, Abortion is legal so until someone changes the
law, Obama is just going along with THE LAW.
95% of the Notre Dame Seniors want President
Obama to speak at their graduation. Their voice
should be heard.